Timeline for Scope of negation with absolute constructions
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
9 events
| when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| May 14, 2020 at 21:04 | comment | added | Mitomino | @tony In Livy's ex. eorum is referring to Hernicos. Cf. Pinkster's translation with this one: "when the consuls C. Sulpicius and C. Licinius Calvus led an army against the Hernici and did not find the enemy in the field, they took Ferentinum—a city of the Hernici—by force. The Tiburtines closed their gates to the returning Romans)". For context, cf. p. 98 (transl. given in footnote 197: repository.upenn.edu/cgi/… ). Ok with your transl. of templis non aedificatis. Finally, glad to know we share a passion for the gerundive. | |
| May 14, 2020 at 17:24 | comment | added | TKR | Thanks for these interesting examples! The Plautus quote does look like an instance of what I asked about, though as you say it's less surprising because lexicalized. The Livy quote I think is most naturally taken as a "normally" negated AA where the scope is just inventis (it could be recast as something like hostibus non inventis). Information structure seems important here -- in the Plautus and my made-up example the negated AA is the focus of the sentence. Maybe the question is really whether an AA can function as focus? | |
| May 14, 2020 at 12:44 | comment | added | tony | had no food." This could be put into reverse: "templis a consule non aedificatis, cives cibum habebant." = "With ….not having been built, the citizens had food."--do you agree? A more imaginative approach to negation is given in Allen & Greenough (p419 [a]): "nil desperandum Teucro duce et auspice Teucro." (Hor. Od. 1. 7. 27.) = "There should be no despair under Teucer's leadership and auspices (Teucer being leader, etc.). Here, the use of our old friend, the neuter gerundive. | |
| May 14, 2020 at 12:32 | comment | added | tony | We have discussed ablative absolutes (AA) before, in Q: latin.stackexchange.com/q/12724/1982. In the example, above: "...neque inventis in agro hostibus Ferentinum urbem eorum vi cepissent, …", pronoun, "eorum", in the main clause, refers to the enemy "hostibus" in the AA-clause. Is this not forbidden? ("Absolutus": free or unconnected.) Has Pinkster's violated an established orthodoxy? Whatever next? Negation: an ex. from an elementary text (GCSE): "templis a consule aedificatis, cives cibum non habebant." = "After the temples had been built by the consul, the citizens | |
| May 14, 2020 at 3:38 | history | edited | Mitomino | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
clarification added
|
| May 14, 2020 at 2:49 | history | edited | Mitomino | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
grammar
|
| May 14, 2020 at 2:38 | history | edited | Mitomino | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
some relevant examples and authoritative reference (Pinkster 2015) added.
|
| May 14, 2020 at 0:57 | history | edited | Mitomino | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
minor changes
|
| May 14, 2020 at 0:52 | history | answered | Mitomino | CC BY-SA 4.0 |