Questions tagged [poetry]

Questions related to aspects of Latin as used in poetry.

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48 views

nu + coronis at the beginning of homeric verses?

I need help understanding a passage from Chantraine's Grammaire Homérique (chapter XVIII, p. 222). Chantraine talks about the Ζῆν and Ζῆνα forms of the name Zeus. According to Chantraine, the aedes ...
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128 views

Is there a difference between prose stress and metric stress?

According to an earlier question, we do not know how stress was realized on classical Latin. It may have been dynamic (stressed syllables are louder), tonal (stress changes pitch), or a combination, ...
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Does Latin offer a single word referring back to the preceding *two* names mentioned?

Background. The following is correct standard English: (0) He read the poems of Catullus, Juvenal, Horace, and Virgil. He intentionally memorized only poems of the latter two. The following uses ...
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115 views

Pentheus as “Divine Suffering”

Q: Can the etymology of Πενθεύς truly be divorced from divinity? Here's a name that even Graves translates merely as "grief". But as a student of Graves, this is one his translation may be too ...
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118 views

Fifth spondee in Aeneis I.690

I ran into this hexameter verse by Vergilius when researching for an answer to another question: exuit, et gressu gaudens incedit Iuli. (Aeneis I.690) The only way I seem to able to scan this ...
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86 views

Use of the chiasmus in Latin

Was the chiasma common in Latin? Or an uncommon figure of speech? (Words in a sentence with the pattern ABBA or ABBCBBA, etc...) Where could we meet the greatest amount of chiasma? In poetry? In ...
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70 views

Feedback on grammar in a Latin poem

I am writing a poem in Latin and am a bit torn as to the grammar. In English, the poem would be as below: In secrets there is power. In truths there is freedom. Lust is for now. Love is ...
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129 views

What do we know about the Saturnian for sure?

Some of old Latin poetry was written in Saturnian metre. I am under the impression that use and proper understanding of this poetic form were lost by the classical era, and we do not have a full ...
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134 views

Is this a good way to say 'So remember me this way'?

sic este mei memores hec illac I am trying to use it in a poem. It needs to be 10 syllables and the end has to rhyme with 'attack.' Is this a good way to say 'So remember me this way'?
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161 views

About P.Oxy. 1787 fr. 9

Bibliotheca Augustana reports a fragment in book 1 of Sappho which, it says, is from P. Oxy. XV (1922) nr. 1787 fr. 9, and reads: ]ο δέρκεν ἐπώμοσσ[ ]ν ἔτι, τὰν παῖδα δε[ ]βρ[.]ταν κἀγχερριθ[έτ-...
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85 views

Parsing Priapea IV

I'm kind of 'intermediate' Latin, and I can't find a completely satisfactory way to parse this poem (Priapea IV, Bucheler Ed. via latinlibrary): Obscaenas rigido deo tabellas dicans ex ...
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47 views

Understanding a sacrifice in Horace's carmen 1.5

In Carmina 1, poem 5, Horace writes about an untrustworthy and seducing lady. He ends the poem in: (...) Me tabula sacer votiva paries indicat uvida suspendisse potenti vestimenta maris deo. ...
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55 views

Caesuras in Phalaecian verses

In short: I need help to analyse the versification of some verses written by Catullus.13. Theses verses are pure hendecasyllabic Phalaecian, namely - - | - u u | - u | - u | - u . What bothers me is ...
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45 views

Which words never elide?

I know the vocative ō doesn't elide with a following word in Latin, though it can elide with a preceding one. For example, Catullus LXI.39: dicite "o Hymenaee Hymen…" For metrical reasons, this ...
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50 views

Are dialogues in ancient texts declared with “He said: …” and “She said: …”

I am particularly interested atm in the Edda where it has "Foo spake:" and "Bar spake:" before several of the stanzas. But that's Old Norse. This being a Latin site, I am interested in the Latin Mass ...
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221 views

On what basis does Campbell put P.Oxy. 1231 fr. 12 together with fr. 15? And why does Edmonds not? And why does C read more than Grenfell and Hunt do?

We're talking about the Gongyla poem. Campbell has it as sourced by P.Oxy. 1231 frr. 12 and 15. Edmonds separates the two. Also, Edmonds' completion is perfectly fine with Grenfell and Hunt's reading ...
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316 views

Identifying alleged Sappho fragment from mishmash on otherwise generally good online resource

I'm back with another question like this one, to which I leave the background part. So among the sources I found while researching Sappho back in the days is The Complete Poems of Sappho, which I am ...
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50 views

Description of Eurus in Ovid's Metamorphoses

Here's a quote from Ovid's Metamorphoses 1.61-2, where he talks about Eurus, the east wind: Eurus ad Auroram Nabataeaque regna recessit Persidaque et radiis iuga subdita matutinis I've translated it ...
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2answers
661 views

About Sappho 16, ll. 6-9

There are apparently numerous versions of these lines. I only have access to two1 however: Edmonds': […]· ἀ γὰρ πόλυ περσκόπεισα κάλλος ἀνθρώπων Ἐλένα τὸν ἄνδρα [κρίννε κάλ]ιστον [ὸς τὸ ...
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Translating the 道德經 into Greek

I’m currently doing Chinese winter school, and I thought I would try to translate the first line of the daodejing into Greek, as a fun exercise. Can you help correct my grammar? :) ´ο λογος τουτον ...
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About the Alexandrian edition of Sappho: how were the poems assigned to the books?

I have heard that there was, a long long time ago, an edition of Sappho's poem published (right?) at Alexandria. I know it had at least 8 books (maybe 9, maybe more, that's up for debate) and that the ...
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151 views

The tradition for Sappho Lobel-Page 144

Here is the fragment as it appears in Voigt's edition: Bergk gives the text: μάλα δὴ κεκορημένας Γόργως and the critical note: So Voigt seems to say the one codex for this, which is curated (?)...
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126 views

Sappho Lobel-Page 39: μάσλης vs. μάσθλης

Text: ‹–u–x–uu–› Πόδας δέ ποίκιλος μάσλης ἐκάλυπτε, Λύδι- ον κάλον ἔργον. Apart from "WTF Edmonds, tradition is unanimous on ἐκάλυπτε (says Voigt, Edmonds has different opinions) and ...
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132 views

Why is the ϝ' in Sappho Lobel-Page universally thought to be a female (AFAIK at least)?

Here is the amended text, in almost the Lobel-Page version: ἀμφὶ ‹δ'› άβροισ‹ιν› λασίοισ' εὖ ‹ϝ'› ἐπύκασσεν The ‹δ'› is a correction from the tradition's λάβροις, the ‹ιν› fills in a hole in the ...
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117 views

About certain emendations to Sappho Edmonds 76 Campbell 147

In Sappho Edmonds 76 Campbell 147, the tradition gives μνάσασθαί τινα φάμη καὶ ἔτερον ἀμμέων. I can see why one would amend this to μνάσασθαί τινά φαμι καὶ ὔστερον/ἄψερον ἀμμέων on metrical grounds, ...
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117 views

About the Sappho fragment containing Doricha's name that was found first (Campbell 15, Edmonds 37)

I see that Sappho Campbell 15 has two sources: P.Oxy. 1231 fr. 1, and P.Oxy. 1231 fr. 3. The matching Edmonds is n. 37, which only keeps the last, more complete stanza, and thus does not include fr. 3....
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225 views

Sappho 94: the Spaniards' completion

Cross-post notice A week ago, I asked the exact same question (modulo the title) on Literature. It was met with an uproar of upvotes (alliteration casual, 9 upvotes), but not answers. I discussed the ...
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What is the logic behind the ordering and numbering of Sappho fragments, and why did it change e.g. from Edmonds to Campbell?

I understand ordering the poems by meter, and perhaps putting those of uncertain meter at the end. However, there are many poems with the same meter, especially Sapphic stanzas (which is probably why ...
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Is there any other reason to put these P.Oxy. 1787 frr. 1&2 together than Athenaeus's quotation? And what about the little Cologne scrap?

I researched the sources of Sappho's ῎Υμμες πεδὰ Μοίσαν ἰοκόλπων κάλα δῶρα παῖδες (whatever the number is). There are two scraps from P.Oxy. 1787, precisely frr. 1-2, and potentially fr. 2(a), with ...
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92 views

Why is it assumed that Sappho fr. 98 Campbell is missing two lines at the beginning of the first known tercet?

Campbell p. 122 has this poem as fr. 98. The first "wannabe" tercet has only one line in Campbell. Bibliotheca Augustana reports the poem with two "blank" lines at the start, and also offers the image ...
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1answer
910 views

Fortune Favors the Bold

I have seen quite a few translations such as, Audentes Fortuna Juvas Audentis Fortuna Iuvat Audecis Fortuna Juvat But, what is the correct translation? I am looking for the one which matches ...
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2answers
153 views

Why does Athenaeus say this is not Sappho?

Sappho Bergk 30, not present (AFAICT from searching) in Campbell or Edmonds, is from Athenaeus's Deipnosophistae, book XIII. Here is the text with some of Athenaeus's words around it, as reported by ...
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79 views

commentary of “Arma virumque cano”

In Aeneis commentary (left-below) it is written: Male explicant: armatum virum; sed disiungenda sunt haec duo vocabula, ut disiunxit Tasso quum diceret: Canto l'arini pietose e 'l capitano; si vero ...
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83 views

A poem about looking back without regret

There's an adage I've heard about grief: look back and be happy about the time you had, rather than regret what might have been. The Roman lyricists seem to have poems for every possible aspect of ...
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1answer
91 views

Tracing apparent book-IV colophon not found in Voigt but found in a Spanish Sappho book based on Reinach's French edition

Ah, here we are again. The Spanish edition I mentioned in a recent question has produced another piece of trivia. Here is the offending fragment, numbered 89: Σαπ[φοΟί με[λών δ'? Apart from the ...
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106 views

Figuring out the grammar of Edmonds 57 (Edmonds' version of the part in cruces of Lobel-Page 46)

A bit of background on the fragment. This is a quotation by Herodian. The manuscripts, according to Bergk (frr. 56 & 82), give it as: ἐγὼ δ' ἐπὶ μαλθάκαν τύλαν σπολέω μέλεα· κἂν μέν τε τύλαγκας ...
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Sappho Lobel-Page 136: to amend, or not to amend?

The fragment is reported by the tradition as: Ἦρος ἄγγελος ἱμερόφωνος ἀήδων Or sometimes with ἡμερόφωνος. It would seem we just need to fix a psilosis for the third word. However, Edmonds and ...
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173 views

About Sappho Lobel-Page 104(a)

The tradition for this fragment is a horrible mess which I will detail in an addendum at the end (modulo updates) of the question by pasting the critical note I prepared this morning for it. Line 2 is ...
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3answers
139 views

About Sappho Lobel-Page 152

Looking at this in different editions, you find μεμειχμένα in Lobel-Page, Voigt (whence the above snippet), and Campbell, μεμειγμένα in Edmonds, and μεμιγμένα in Bergk. None of those offer any "...
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1answer
62 views

Is this an accurate way to translate “addiditque sermo mihi est ad te cui ait loquere et ille”

addiditque sermo mihi est ad te cui ait loquere et ille 1 Kings 2:14 I'm attempting to use it as a formal Latin epigraph for a poem and want to know, if I were to translate it as a footnote or ...
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1answer
89 views

Help translating short poem for book

I'm writing a book right now about a cult. I've tried using google translate to take the initiation vows for the cult and put them in Latin, but it ends up terrible. If anyone could help me get this ...
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154 views

About Sappho Lobel-Page 101

This is kind of a mess. Let me first report how I tackled it when I first translated all (or most) of Sappho. Below is the translation of an extract of the Paracritical note I made back then, the ...
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40 views

About the part in cruces of Sappho Lobel-Page 46

The part of fragment in the title reads: κἂν μέν τε τύλαγκας ἀσπόλεα Now, the only easy amendation that comes to mind here (other than erasing the space after τε) is κἂν->κὰμ. That gives us three ...
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69 views

What is up with these codices?

Sorry for the vague title, but that is really the question. The problem is with the manuscript sources for Lobel-Page incerti auctoris 24. From Edmonds on, the sources are reported as: υεσζερυμηνιον ...

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