Questions tagged [poetry]

Questions related to aspects of Latin as used in poetry.

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9
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2answers
932 views

Why does Catullus use “odi” instead of “odio” in Catullus 85?

I think the question is straightforward, "odi" to me appears to be the imperative while "amo" is the singular 1st p. Is this some construction I am unaware of with "et"?
6
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1answer
156 views

Can “sum” and “nemo” work together to create a phrase meaning “I am no one?”

I have been trying to understand the relationship between "sum" and "nemo", to create a phrase meaning something like "I am no one". In all the contexts I personally ...
3
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1answer
51 views

Description of Eurus in Ovid's Metamorphoses

Here's a quote from Ovid's Metamorphoses 1.61-2, where he talks about Eurus, the east wind: Eurus ad Auroram Nabataeaque regna recessit Persidaque et radiis iuga subdita matutinis I've translated it ...
14
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4answers
3k views

Meaning of “dies illa” from Dies Irae

The first verse from "Dies Irae" goes like Dies irae, dies illa I'm trying to understand what "illa" is referring to. According to the declension table for pronouns, "illa" corresponds either to ...
5
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0answers
49 views

nu + coronis at the beginning of homeric verses?

I need help understanding a passage from Chantraine's Grammaire Homérique (chapter XVIII, p. 222). Chantraine talks about the Ζῆν and Ζῆνα forms of the name Zeus. According to Chantraine, the aedes ...
4
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0answers
45 views

Which words never elide?

I know the vocative ō doesn't elide with a following word in Latin, though it can elide with a preceding one. For example, Catullus LXI.39: dicite "o Hymenaee Hymen…" For metrical reasons, this ...
2
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1answer
87 views

commentary of “Arma virumque cano”

In Aeneis commentary (left-below) it is written: Male explicant: armatum virum; sed disiungenda sunt haec duo vocabula, ut disiunxit Tasso quum diceret: Canto l'arini pietose e 'l capitano; si vero ...
6
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1answer
137 views

Were the rules for elision in old Latin more lenient than in classical Latin?

We are currently working our way through Plautus’ Poenulus, which is a quite entertaining piece to read. I am personally very interested in Latin poetry, but in working with this piece, I have come ...
4
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1answer
88 views

Use of the chiasmus in Latin

Was the chiasma common in Latin? Or an uncommon figure of speech? (Words in a sentence with the pattern ABBA or ABBCBBA, etc...) Where could we meet the greatest amount of chiasma? In poetry? In ...
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51 views

Are dialogues in ancient texts declared with “He said: …” and “She said: …”

I am particularly interested atm in the Edda where it has "Foo spake:" and "Bar spake:" before several of the stanzas. But that's Old Norse. This being a Latin site, I am interested in the Latin Mass ...
9
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1answer
445 views

A poem that works in both Latin and Italian

Years ago an old colleague showed me a poem which had a miraculous feature: it was perfectly valid Latin and perfectly valid Italian. With clever choices of words one can make that happen, but it also ...
7
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2answers
136 views

Vergil Book XII, Line 756 | Meter Question

"tum vero exoritur clamor ripaeque lacusque" When you do the meter for this line, if you do the elision it does not work out, having 6 feet and all. So, to make it work what I had to do was not do ...
1
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1answer
62 views

Is this an accurate way to translate “addiditque sermo mihi est ad te cui ait loquere et ille”

addiditque sermo mihi est ad te cui ait loquere et ille 1 Kings 2:14 I'm attempting to use it as a formal Latin epigraph for a poem and want to know, if I were to translate it as a footnote or ...
4
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1answer
49 views

Understanding a sacrifice in Horace's carmen 1.5

In Carmina 1, poem 5, Horace writes about an untrustworthy and seducing lady. He ends the poem in: (...) Me tabula sacer votiva paries indicat uvida suspendisse potenti vestimenta maris deo. ...
2
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1answer
87 views

A poem about looking back without regret

There's an adage I've heard about grief: look back and be happy about the time you had, rather than regret what might have been. The Roman lyricists seem to have poems for every possible aspect of ...
1
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1answer
90 views

Help translating short poem for book

I'm writing a book right now about a cult. I've tried using google translate to take the initiation vows for the cult and put them in Latin, but it ends up terrible. If anyone could help me get this ...
8
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2answers
129 views

“exoritur” in Ennius' dactylic hexameter

I'm stuck while reading Ennius' "Cūrantēs magnā cum cūrā", written in dactylic hexameters. I added to the text some macrons and caesuras that are of my own. I scrupulously respected what little I ...
5
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1answer
59 views

how to interpret the diminutive-suffixed adj. **lacteolus**

I read the following content in the Oxford Latin Dictionary: lacteolus = lacteus+ -olus, where -olus is a diminutive suffix. The ‘normal’ form lacteus and the diminutive form lacteolus share ...
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0answers
46 views

Sappho Lobel-Page 136: to amend, or not to amend?

The fragment is reported by the tradition as: Ἦρος ἄγγελος ἱμερόφωνος ἀήδων Or sometimes with ἡμερόφωνος. It would seem we just need to fix a psilosis for the third word. However, Edmonds and ...
4
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1answer
55 views

Caesuras in Phalaecian verses

In short: I need help to analyse the versification of some verses written by Catullus.13. Theses verses are pure hendecasyllabic Phalaecian, namely - - | - u u | - u | - u | - u . What bothers me is ...
3
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1answer
152 views

The tradition for Sappho Lobel-Page 144

Here is the fragment as it appears in Voigt's edition: Bergk gives the text: μάλα δὴ κεκορημένας Γόργως and the critical note: So Voigt seems to say the one codex for this, which is curated (?)...
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1answer
937 views

Fortune Favors the Bold

I have seen quite a few translations such as, Audentes Fortuna Juvas Audentis Fortuna Iuvat Audecis Fortuna Juvat But, what is the correct translation? I am looking for the one which matches ...
3
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1answer
129 views

Sappho Lobel-Page 39: μάσλης vs. μάσθλης

Text: ‹–u–x–uu–› Πόδας δέ ποίκιλος μάσλης ἐκάλυπτε, Λύδι- ον κάλον ἔργον. Apart from "WTF Edmonds, tradition is unanimous on ἐκάλυπτε (says Voigt, Edmonds has different opinions) and ...
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155 views

About Sappho Lobel-Page 101

This is kind of a mess. Let me first report how I tackled it when I first translated all (or most) of Sappho. Below is the translation of an extract of the Paracritical note I made back then, the ...
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1answer
132 views

Why is the ϝ' in Sappho Lobel-Page universally thought to be a female (AFAIK at least)?

Here is the amended text, in almost the Lobel-Page version: ἀμφὶ ‹δ'› άβροισ‹ιν› λασίοισ' εὖ ‹ϝ'› ἐπύκασσεν The ‹δ'› is a correction from the tradition's λάβροις, the ‹ιν› fills in a hole in the ...
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40 views

About the part in cruces of Sappho Lobel-Page 46

The part of fragment in the title reads: κἂν μέν τε τύλαγκας ἀσπόλεα Now, the only easy amendation that comes to mind here (other than erasing the space after τε) is κἂν->κὰμ. That gives us three ...
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175 views

About Sappho Lobel-Page 104(a)

The tradition for this fragment is a horrible mess which I will detail in an addendum at the end (modulo updates) of the question by pasting the critical note I prepared this morning for it. Line 2 is ...
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3answers
140 views

About Sappho Lobel-Page 152

Looking at this in different editions, you find μεμειχμένα in Lobel-Page, Voigt (whence the above snippet), and Campbell, μεμειγμένα in Edmonds, and μεμιγμένα in Bergk. None of those offer any "...
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69 views

What is up with these codices?

Sorry for the vague title, but that is really the question. The problem is with the manuscript sources for Lobel-Page incerti auctoris 24. From Edmonds on, the sources are reported as: υεσζερυμηνιον ...
2
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1answer
106 views

Figuring out the grammar of Edmonds 57 (Edmonds' version of the part in cruces of Lobel-Page 46)

A bit of background on the fragment. This is a quotation by Herodian. The manuscripts, according to Bergk (frr. 56 & 82), give it as: ἐγὼ δ' ἐπὶ μαλθάκαν τύλαν σπολέω μέλεα· κἂν μέν τε τύλαγκας ...
2
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1answer
92 views

Tracing apparent book-IV colophon not found in Voigt but found in a Spanish Sappho book based on Reinach's French edition

Ah, here we are again. The Spanish edition I mentioned in a recent question has produced another piece of trivia. Here is the offending fragment, numbered 89: Σαπ[φοΟί με[λών δ'? Apart from the ...
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3answers
323 views

Identifying alleged Sappho fragment from mishmash on otherwise generally good online resource

I'm back with another question like this one, to which I leave the background part. So among the sources I found while researching Sappho back in the days is The Complete Poems of Sappho, which I am ...
6
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2answers
178 views

Identifying corrupted Sappho fragment or mention of Sappho found in just-newly-found-online Spanish edition of Sappho

OK, so this question is perhaps somewhat weird, but I have no idea where to start, so here I am. Let me give some introduction. Me, languages, and Greek Let's start very far back. As my blog ...
4
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2answers
163 views

About P.Oxy. 1787 fr. 9

Bibliotheca Augustana reports a fragment in book 1 of Sappho which, it says, is from P. Oxy. XV (1922) nr. 1787 fr. 9, and reads: ]ο δέρκεν ἐπώμοσσ[ ]ν ἔτι, τὰν παῖδα δε[ ]βρ[.]ταν κἀγχερριθ[έτ-...
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1answer
86 views

Parsing Priapea IV

I'm kind of 'intermediate' Latin, and I can't find a completely satisfactory way to parse this poem (Priapea IV, Bucheler Ed. via latinlibrary): Obscaenas rigido deo tabellas dicans ex ...
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1answer
131 views

About Sappho Edmonds 89 Campbell 48

General background What I gather from Edmonds is that the fragment at hand is found in a letter written by Iulianus (Julian the Apostate?) to Iamblichus, and the "offending" part of the ...
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133 views

Is there a difference between prose stress and metric stress?

According to an earlier question, we do not know how stress was realized on classical Latin. It may have been dynamic (stressed syllables are louder), tonal (stress changes pitch), or a combination, ...
3
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1answer
56 views

Translating the 道德經 into Greek

I’m currently doing Chinese winter school, and I thought I would try to translate the first line of the daodejing into Greek, as a fun exercise. Can you help correct my grammar? :) ´ο λογος τουτον ...
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1answer
119 views

About certain emendations to Sappho Edmonds 76 Campbell 147

In Sappho Edmonds 76 Campbell 147, the tradition gives μνάσασθαί τινα φάμη καὶ ἔτερον ἀμμέων. I can see why one would amend this to μνάσασθαί τινά φαμι καὶ ὔστερον/ἄψερον ἀμμέων on metrical grounds, ...
4
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1answer
117 views

Pentheus as “Divine Suffering”

Q: Can the etymology of Πενθεύς truly be divorced from divinity? Here's a name that even Graves translates merely as "grief". But as a student of Graves, this is one his translation may be too ...
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2answers
666 views

About Sappho 16, ll. 6-9

There are apparently numerous versions of these lines. I only have access to two1 however: Edmonds': […]· ἀ γὰρ πόλυ περσκόπεισα κάλλος ἀνθρώπων Ἐλένα τὸν ἄνδρα [κρίννε κάλ]ιστον [ὸς τὸ ...
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1answer
71 views

Feedback on grammar in a Latin poem

I am writing a poem in Latin and am a bit torn as to the grammar. In English, the poem would be as below: In secrets there is power. In truths there is freedom. Lust is for now. Love is ...
5
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2answers
245 views

When did rhyme enter Latin poetry or song?

Judging by this question on rhyming in classical poetry, it seems that rhyme did not make its way to Latin poetry in the classical era. As far as I know, even hymns intended for singing (like Carmen ...
4
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1answer
134 views

What do we know about the Saturnian for sure?

Some of old Latin poetry was written in Saturnian metre. I am under the impression that use and proper understanding of this poetic form were lost by the classical era, and we do not have a full ...
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1answer
68 views

What are the most complete unattributed classical works?

There are various fragments of Greek and Latin poetry whose provenance is unknown, such as quotations in other works whose source hasn't survived. Are there any known fragments longer than a couple ...
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1answer
185 views

Two unfindable words from Sappho Edmonds 12, Edmonds' version

Edmonds' edition of Sappho has great eagerness to fill gaps in papyrus texts. One example of this is fragment 12 (in Edmonds' numbering), which in Edmonds reads: [Αἰ δέ μοι γάλακτο]ς ἐπ̣ά̣β̣ολ’ ἦσ̣[...
7
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1answer
179 views

Scanning the inscription of The Classical High School of Tampere

I strolled around Tampere today, and I noticed an inscription in the wall of The Classical High School of Tampere: FENNIA VOS GENUIT GREMIO VOS INTIMA FOVIT. ARBORIS AUSCULTET MURMURA QUISQUE ...
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0answers
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Does Latin offer a single word referring back to the preceding *two* names mentioned?

Background. The following is correct standard English: (0) He read the poems of Catullus, Juvenal, Horace, and Virgil. He intentionally memorized only poems of the latter two. The following uses ...
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2answers
156 views

Why does Athenaeus say this is not Sappho?

Sappho Bergk 30, not present (AFAICT from searching) in Campbell or Edmonds, is from Athenaeus's Deipnosophistae, book XIII. Here is the text with some of Athenaeus's words around it, as reported by ...
3
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1answer
118 views

About the Sappho fragment containing Doricha's name that was found first (Campbell 15, Edmonds 37)

I see that Sappho Campbell 15 has two sources: P.Oxy. 1231 fr. 1, and P.Oxy. 1231 fr. 3. The matching Edmonds is n. 37, which only keeps the last, more complete stanza, and thus does not include fr. 3....