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Questions tagged [poetry]

Questions related to aspects of Latin as used in poetry.

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Sappho Lobel-Page 136: to amend, or not to amend?

The fragment is reported by the tradition as: Ἦρος ἄγγελος ἱμερόφωνος ἀήδων Or sometimes with ἡμερόφωνος. It would seem we just need to fix a psilosis for the third word. However, Edmonds and ...
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Caesuras in Phalaecian verses

In short: I need help to analyse the versification of some verses written by Catullus.13. Theses verses are pure hendecasyllabic Phalaecian, namely - - | - u u | - u | - u | - u . What bothers me is ...
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1answer
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The tradition for Sappho Lobel-Page 144

Here is the fragment as it appears in Voigt's edition: Bergk gives the text: μάλα δὴ κεκορημένας Γόργως and the critical note: So Voigt seems to say the one codex for this, which is curated (?)...
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67 views

Fortune Favors the Bold

I have seen quite a few translations such as, Audentes Fortuna Juvas Audentis Fortuna Iuvat Audecis Fortuna Juvat But, what is the correct translation? I am looking for the one which matches ...
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Sappho Lobel-Page 39: μάσλης vs. μάσθλης

Text: ‹–u–x–uu–› Πόδας δέ ποίκιλος μάσλης ἐκάλυπτε, Λύδι- ον κάλον ἔργον. Apart from "WTF Edmonds, tradition is unanimous on ἐκάλυπτε (says Voigt, Edmonds has different opinions) and ...
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About Sappho Lobel-Page 119

Tradition: ἡμιτύβιον σταλάσσων Needed changes: Psilosis to ἠμιτύβιον; Changing to neuter gender: στάλασσον. Changes I cannot motivate: Edmonds writes στέλασσον, why would that be? From Lobel-...
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About Sappho Lobel-Page 101

This is kind of a mess. Let me first report how I tackled it when I first translated all (or most) of Sappho. Below is the translation of an extract of the Paracritical note I made back then, the ...
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107 views

Why is the ϝ' in Sappho Lobel-Page universally thought to be a female (AFAIK at least)?

Here is the amended text, in almost the Lobel-Page version: ἀμφὶ ‹δ'› άβροισ‹ιν› λασίοισ' εὖ ‹ϝ'› ἐπύκασσεν The ‹δ'› is a correction from the tradition's λάβροις, the ‹ιν› fills in a hole in the ...
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About the part in cruces of Sappho Lobel-Page 46

The part of fragment in the title reads: κἂν μέν τε τύλαγκας ἀσπόλεα Now, the only easy amendation that comes to mind here (other than erasing the space after τε) is κἂν->κὰμ. That gives us three ...
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About Sappho Lobel-Page 104(a)

The tradition for this fragment is a horrible mess which I will detail in an addendum at the end (modulo updates) of the question by pasting the critical note I prepared this morning for it. Line 2 is ...
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About Sappho Lobel-Page 152

Looking at this in different editions, you find μεμειχμένα in Lobel-Page, Voigt (whence the above snippet), and Campbell, μεμειγμένα in Edmonds, and μεμιγμένα in Bergk. None of those offer any "...
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What is up with these codices?

Sorry for the vague title, but that is really the question. The problem is with the manuscript sources for Lobel-Page incerti auctoris 24. From Edmonds on, the sources are reported as: ...
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About P.Oxy. 1787 fragment published in Lobel's Σαπφοῦς μέλη

In the above picture of P.Oxy. 1787 frr. 1+2, I traced blue lines where I think I can see the joint between fr. 1 and the fragment published in the book IV section of Edgar Lobel's Σαπφοῦς μέλη. There ...
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Figuring out the grammar of Edmonds 57 (Edmonds' version of the part in cruces of Lobel-Page 46)

A bit of background on the fragment. This is a quotation by Herodian. The manuscripts, according to Bergk (frr. 56 & 82), give it as: ἐγὼ δ' ἐπὶ μαλθάκαν τύλαν σπολέω μέλεα· κἂν μέν τε τύλαγκας ...
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Tracing apparent book-IV colophon not found in Voigt but found in a Spanish Sappho book based on Reinach's French edition

Ah, here we are again. The Spanish edition I mentioned in a recent question has produced another piece of trivia. Here is the offending fragment, numbered 89: Σαπ[φοΟί με[λών δ'? Apart from the ...
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Identifying alleged Sappho fragment from mishmash on otherwise generally good online resource

I'm back with another question like this one, to which I leave the background part. So among the sources I found while researching Sappho back in the days is The Complete Poems of Sappho, which I am ...
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Identifying corrupted Sappho fragment or mention of Sappho found in just-newly-found-online Spanish edition of Sappho

OK, so this question is perhaps somewhat weird, but I have no idea where to start, so here I am. Let me give some introduction. Me, languages, and Greek Let's start very far back. As my blog ...
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119 views

About P.Oxy. 1787 fr. 9

Bibliotheca Augustana reports a fragment in book 1 of Sappho which, it says, is from P. Oxy. XV (1922) nr. 1787 fr. 9, and reads: ]ο δέρκεν ἐπώμοσσ[ ]ν ἔτι, τὰν παῖδα δε[ ]βρ[.]ταν κἀγχερριθ[έτ-...
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Parsing Priapea IV

I'm kind of 'intermediate' Latin, and I can't find a completely satisfactory way to parse this poem (Priapea IV, Bucheler Ed. via latinlibrary): Obscaenas rigido deo tabellas dicans ex ...
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About Sappho Edmonds 89 Campbell 48

General background What I gather from Edmonds is that the fragment at hand is found in a letter written by Iulianus (Julian the Apostate?) to Iamblichus, and the "offending" part of the letter reads ...
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Is there a difference between prose stress and metric stress?

According to an earlier question, we do not know how stress was realized on classical Latin. It may have been dynamic (stressed syllables are louder), tonal (stress changes pitch), or a combination, ...
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Translating the 道德經 into Greek

I’m currently doing Chinese winter school, and I thought I would try to translate the first line of the daodejing into Greek, as a fun exercise. Can you help correct my grammar? :) ´ο λογος τουτον ...
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About certain emendations to Sappho Edmonds 76 Campbell 147

In Sappho Edmonds 76 Campbell 147, the tradition gives μνάσασθαί τινα φάμη καὶ ἔτερον ἀμμέων. I can see why one would amend this to μνάσασθαί τινά φαμι καὶ ὔστερον/ἄψερον ἀμμέων on metrical grounds, ...
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Pentheus as “Divine Suffering”

Q: Can the etymology of Πενθεύς truly be divorced from divinity? Here's a name that even Graves translates merely as "grief". But as a student of Graves, this is one his translation may be too ...
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483 views

About Sappho 16, ll. 6-9

There are apparently numerous versions of these lines. I only have access to two1 however: Edmonds': […]· ἀ γὰρ πόλυ περσκόπεισα κάλλος ἀνθρώπων Ἐλένα τὸν ἄνδρα [κρίννε κάλ]ιστον [ὸς τὸ ...
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Feedback on grammar in a Latin poem

I am writing a poem in Latin and am a bit torn as to the grammar. In English, the poem would be as below: In secrets there is power. In truths there is freedom. Lust is for now. Love is ...
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When did rhyme enter Latin poetry or song?

Judging by this question on rhyming in classical poetry, it seems that rhyme did not make its way to Latin poetry in the classical era. As far as I know, even hymns intended for singing (like Carmen ...
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62 views

What do we know about the Saturnian for sure?

Some of old Latin poetry was written in Saturnian metre. I am under the impression that use and proper understanding of this poetic form were lost by the classical era, and we do not have a full ...
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What are the most complete unattributed classical works?

There are various fragments of Greek and Latin poetry whose provenance is unknown, such as quotations in other works whose source hasn't survived. Are there any known fragments longer than a couple ...
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Two unfindable words from Sappho Edmonds 12, Edmonds' version

Edmonds' edition of Sappho has great eagerness to fill gaps in papyrus texts. One example of this is fragment 12 (in Edmonds' numbering), which in Edmonds reads: [Αἰ δέ μοι γάλακτο]ς ἐπ̣ά̣β̣ολ’ ἦσ̣[...
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Scanning the inscription of The Classical High School of Tampere

I strolled around Tampere today, and I noticed an inscription in the wall of The Classical High School of Tampere: FENNIA VOS GENUIT GREMIO VOS INTIMA FOVIT. ARBORIS AUSCULTET MURMURA QUISQUE ...
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Does Latin offer a single word referring back to the preceding *two* names mentioned?

Background. The following is correct standard English: (0) He read the poems of Catullus, Juvenal, Horace, and Virgil. He intentionally memorized only poems of the latter two. The following uses ...
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Why does Athenaeus say this is not Sappho?

Sappho Bergk 30, not present (AFAICT from searching) in Campbell or Edmonds, is from Athenaeus's Deipnosophistae, book XIII. Here is the text with some of Athenaeus's words around it, as reported by ...
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77 views

About the Sappho fragment containing Doricha's name that was found first (Campbell 15, Edmonds 37)

I see that Sappho Campbell 15 has two sources: P.Oxy. 1231 fr. 1, and P.Oxy. 1231 fr. 3. The matching Edmonds is n. 37, which only keeps the last, more complete stanza, and thus does not include fr. 3....
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Can one recreate the ambiguity of the (incorrect) sentence “You can learn writing.” in Latin?

It seems (to me at least) that with regard to the English sentence You can learn writing. the following is true: Strictly speaking, the sentence is grammatically incorrect w.r.t. standard modern ...
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About the Alexandrian edition of Sappho: how were the poems assigned to the books?

I have heard that there was, a long long time ago, an edition of Sappho's poem published (right?) at Alexandria. I know it had at least 8 books (maybe 9, maybe more, that's up for debate) and that the ...
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What is the logic behind the ordering and numbering of Sappho fragments, and why did it change e.g. from Edmonds to Campbell?

I understand ordering the poems by meter, and perhaps putting those of uncertain meter at the end. However, there are many poems with the same meter, especially Sapphic stanzas (which is probably why ...
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What is this extra source for Sappho 31 Campbell / 2 Edmonds?

I just noticed that Campbell, listing sources for Sappho 31 Campbell / 2 Edmonds, besides Longinus, mentions also P.S.I. (v. fr. 213B). I looked on PSI online, but nothing with the number 213 in its ...
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Is there any other reason to put these P.Oxy. 1787 frr. 1&2 together than Athenaeus's quotation? And what about the little Cologne scrap?

I researched the sources of Sappho's ῎Υμμες πεδὰ Μοίσαν ἰοκόλπων κάλα δῶρα παῖδες (whatever the number is). There are two scraps from P.Oxy. 1787, precisely frr. 1-2, and potentially fr. 2(a), with ...
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341 views

Where does this (Sappho?) fragment come from

In my file of Sappho translations, the next-to-last fragment reads: [–u–x κ]αδδέκεται μέλαινα [–u– πόλλ]ων ἀχέων ἐπαύσθη [–u–x] Ἀτρεϊδαι τελέσθη[ν –uu–x] Sooner or later, it's going to end ...
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Why is it assumed that Sappho fr. 98 Campbell is missing two lines at the beginning of the first known tercet?

Campbell p. 122 has this poem as fr. 98. The first "wannabe" tercet has only one line in Campbell. Bibliotheca Augustana reports the poem with two "blank" lines at the start, and also offers the image ...
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On what basis does Campbell put P.Oxy. 1231 fr. 12 together with fr. 15? And why does Edmonds not? And why does C read more than Grenfell and Hunt do?

We're talking about the Gongyla poem. Campbell has it as sourced by P.Oxy. 1231 frr. 12 and 15. Edmonds separates the two. Also, Edmonds' completion is perfectly fine with Grenfell and Hunt's reading ...
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Did P.Oxy. 2288 contribute in any way to our knowledge of Sappho's hymn to Aphrodite?

From what I gather, we alrady have the text of Sappho's Hymn to Aphrodite (alias Sappho 1, the only poem we have complete) complete and uncontroversial (save for the bit in cruces, τίνα δηὖτε πείθω / ...
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About Sappho's epigram for the little girl Aithopia: first line (manuscript tradition and experts' take), and authorship

Cross-post notice A week ago, I asked the exact same question on Literature. It was met with an uproar of upvotes (alliteration casual, 7 upvotes), but not answers. I discussed the matter with ...
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154 views

Sappho 94: the Spaniards' completion

Cross-post notice A week ago, I asked the exact same question (modulo the title) on Literature. It was met with an uproar of upvotes (alliteration casual, 9 upvotes), but not answers. I discussed the ...
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80 views

What are our sources for Longinus' De sublimitate?

What I am interested in is the part where he quotes Sappho, or, even more specifically, l. 3 of the second stanza of the quoted poem, and in particular the verb in that line. This starts from this ...
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181 views

How to translate these few lines? Met. 1.94–96

I came across a passage that is quite difficult to understand. Unlike most passages that I ask about, it is hard for me to make an attempt. nondum caesa suis, peregrinum ut viseret orbem, ...
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2answers
108 views

Latin quote about a million doggerel verses

I distinctly remember from a class at some point a disparaging remark by a Latin poet about other less accomplished poets who churned out "a million hexameters a year", obviously implying terrible ...
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278 views

What exactly is brevis brevians?

I have come across the term brevis brevians a couple of times on this site. Unfortunately Google does not provide me with a clear definition with examples, so I am still not entire sure what it means. ...
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172 views

Do shorter words tend to come before longer ones in verse?

The Finnish national epic Kalevala was written in a certain poetic meter, which in some respects resembles the classical Greek and Roman meters. In addition to rules regarding syllable length and ...