Questions tagged [ablativus]

For questions about the ablative case.

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2
votes
1answer
332 views

Conquering darkness by science

I just found that the motto of the Free University of Brussels (VUB) in Belgium is the following: Scientia vincere tenebras This should stand for "conquering darkness by science". This can ...
3
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0answers
69 views

Does accipio take the ablative?

In the sentence: ...quō ubi accēpit, in agrum quem arāverat magnā cum dīligentiā sparsit. quo could either be the adverb meaning where/whereupon, or it could be the relative pronoun, assuming that ...
4
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1answer
107 views

Can the ablative of agent and a relative pronoun be used at the same time?

Here is an example of an ablative of agent for living things: "Puella a puero amata" = the girl loved by the boy But is it correct if I add a relative pronoun to form: "Puella quae a ...
7
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3answers
380 views

Use of accusative instead of ablative with 'pro'

I saw written in a coat of arms "PRO MARE NOSTRVM", but we all know that the preposition "pro" takes ablative, so the right form would be "PRO MARI NOSTRO" wouldn't it? I ...
3
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1answer
138 views

Redundancy of “quo” with “de”

Passage: “Quo de genere mortis difficile dictu est.” Cic. Amic. 12 English translation (from Loeb): “It is hard to speak of the nature of his death.” French translation : “Quant à la nature de sa ...
8
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0answers
107 views

On different expressions of partitivity in Latin

I was wondering whether there is any difference between the following partitive expressions in Latin: ūnus tribūnōrum and ūnus ex tribūnīs 'one of the tribunes' (cf. the so-called 'partitive genitive' ...
1
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0answers
57 views

Ablatives of Agent in Ablative Absolutes in Early Latin?

It is (often) said that participles in Ablative Absolutes in Early Latin have an adjectival nature (e.g., see Ruppel (2013: 124): "the Early Latin Ablative Absolute is not strongly verbal at all"). ...
8
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1answer
638 views

Ave Verum Corpus: why ablative?

Ave Verum Corpus ("Hail, true Body!") is a short Latin poem that was set to music by Mozart. For most of it, the language is quite plain and straightforward. However, there's a bit in the middle ...
6
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1answer
197 views

What is the longest sequence of ablative/dative nouns ever to appear in Latin texts

I was intrigued by my question to ask this question. In that questions we have a sequence of 2 ablative nouns in a row: "[Dama] differt a capreis [solis] cornibus ..." I don't count solis because ...
1
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0answers
31 views

How did the preposition “de” evolve into meaning “from”?

I see that in reconstructed PIE "de" or "do" has a meaning of "towards" which is retained in Germanic "to" and Slavic "do". But in Latin "de" has a meaning of "from". Is that simply due it taking the ...
5
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1answer
196 views

Can a “dative of agent” appear in an Ablative Absolute construction?

I was wondering to what extent the syntactic distribution of so-called “dative of agent” and that of “ablative of agent” is different. For example, besides appearing in verbal contexts (e.g., Proelium ...
4
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0answers
69 views

Why is the form “Antares” used as an ablative in some Latin texts?

Jam inquiro nomen stellae Antares. Multa documenta quae "ab Antares" dicunt comperi. At non scio ablativi qui in "es" terminantur. Potestne nomen "Antares" indeclinabile esse? Quare? Exempla: "Lanx ...
4
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1answer
88 views

Declension uncertainty regarding Ablative / Nominative

I'm struggling, particularly, with determining the correct case for some of the words in the following expressions: Natura est semper invicta Here, is the word "invicta" in Ablative or Nominative ...
7
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1answer
819 views

In memoriam: why not “in memoria”?

Consider this usual example of Latin+English: As Wiktionary states, in memoriam literally means "into memory" (memoriam is in accusative case). However, as Wiktionary (above) and Wikipedia state, the ...
4
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4answers
846 views

Disambiguation of “nobis vobis” and “nobis nobis”

For many words, the dative and ablative take the same form. Two examples are nos and vos (nobis and vobis, respectively). Imagine you want to say something like "from us to you [plural]" (where "...
1
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1answer
130 views

Ablative of Specification or Dative of Reference

Spinoza, Ethics, De Dei, Propositio 15, Scholium: Ego saltem satis clare meo quidem judicio demonstravi ... meo judicio is dative or ablative? I cant recognize that it is Ablative of ...
1
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1answer
77 views

The Nominative Case Uses

Spinoza writes in the last passage of Ethics: Cum contra sapiens, quatenus ut talis consideratur, vix animo movetur, sed sui et Dei et rerum aeterna quadam necessitate conscius nunquam esse desinit,...
3
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3answers
310 views

“Fīliolō me auctum scito, salva Terentia”; what is “me” role in this phrase?

Is "Fīliolō me" the ablative of the phrase or "me" refers to "me auctum" in the accusative? If is in the ablative, how does it translates?
3
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1answer
156 views

Nemo te alius pari potestate saepius profuit (Apul. Florida 9)

Would you consider te to be dependent from pari ("with a position as powerful as yours") or saepius ("more often than you")? par can be constructed with simple ablative, but rarely and more common is ...
6
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2answers
144 views

Why would the prae­po­si­tion “per” ᴇᴠᴇʀ take an ab­la­tive in­stead of an ac­cu­sa­tive com­ple­ment?

ᴘᴇʀ + ᴀʙʟ.: Bar­bar­ism, solœ­­cism, or di­a­chron­ic evo­lu­tion? Lewis and Short clear­ly state that per is a prae­po­si­tion whose nor­mal com­ple­ment is in the ac­cusative. With­out hav­ing dol­...
3
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1answer
86 views

Why is the ablative used here instead of the genitive

Mark 1:6 starts with Et erat Joannes vestitus pilis cameli... Which is translated as "John was clothed with camel's hairs...." Why is it pilis instead of pilorum? Shouldn't pilis use genitive ...
5
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1answer
103 views

Regarding the mode of “terram” in Deuteronomy 28:38

Deuteronomy 28:38 reads: Sementem multam jacies in terram, et modicum congregabis: quia locustæ devorabunt omnia. I think the first phrase before the comma has the following structure (but ...
6
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1answer
102 views

Consecutive ablatives

Consider the phrase I met in Rome with a friend As far as I know, "in Rome" and "with a friend" both represent the ablative case in Latin. Thus, the above could be translated as convēnī Rōmā ...
4
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1answer
199 views

Ablative of Comparison w/ Relative Pronoun?

Fairly frequently in Latin one encounters a "backwards" comparison, in which the relative pronoun in the ablative precedes the term of comparison. ...philosophiam ad te adlegem, qua nec ...
12
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2answers
772 views

How do we know that Italian words come from accusatives, not ablatives?

I have been told by several sources that Italian nouns and adjectives that originate from Latin come from accusative forms. Also the final -m is lost and an u becomes o. For example, caro > carnem > ...
5
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2answers
319 views

Can the absolute ablative be used with a prepositional phrase?

In all cases of ablativus absolutus that I know, there is a main word and an attribute and both are in ablative. For example, me absente is "while I am away" and Caesare duce is "when Caesar is in ...
17
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2answers
1k views

When and why did the ablative form?

When did the ablative originate? Additionally, I’d like to know which case was used before the ablative for adverbials. I think it replaced the dative, as I also study Ancient Greek. In that language, ...
4
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1answer
128 views

Help with what I believe is an ablative

Conferre nostris tu potes te laudibus? Moror inter aras, templa perlustro deum; ubi immolatur, exta praegusto omnia; (Phaedrus, "Formica et Musca") I understand it to mean "Are YOU able to ...
8
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1answer
474 views

Dative–ablative ambiguity

When I first looked into Latin, I saw in a textbook that the dative and ablative singular are the same in the second declension: nom. servus acc. servum gen. servi dat. servo abl. servo ...
5
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0answers
51 views

Can I use an instrument with the supine ablative of respect?

If a book is easy to write, I might say liber facilis est scriptu. Here the supine ablative scriptu is an ablative of respect (ablativus respectus). If I want to be more specific about my writing, I ...
5
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1answer
225 views

Comparing ablative and genitive of quality

The ablative and genitive of quality (ablativus qualitatis and genetivus qualitatis) are similar. One can describe a high mountain as mons magna altitudine or mons magnae altitudinis. Is there any ...
11
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1answer
1k views

Genitive vs Ablative of Price

In Latin, worth or value can be expressed by the genitive or by the ablative. Here are some examples: Genitive Non pono utrique par pretium: pluris aestimo beneficium quam iniuriam. (Sen Ep. Mor. 81....
8
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4answers
239 views

In contemporary spoken Latin, do people mark the 1st-declension ablative case?

In contemporary spoken Latin, such as (I think) occurs among canon lawyers in the Vatican and at Latin-only conventicula, do people clearly lengthen the -ā at the end of first-declension nouns in the ...
4
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2answers
110 views

Is the unmarked 1st-declension ablative in writing ever jarring or confusing?

Occasionally while reading, I've mistaken a first-declension ablative for a nominative, or vice versa,* and gotten confused for a moment until I sorted it out. Both appear the same in writing, of ...
9
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1answer
2k views

When to use the Greek accusative?

The Greek accusative or the accusative of respect (accusativus Graecus or accusativus respectus) is used like the ablative of respect (ablativus respectus). This construction is a loan from Greek, ...
12
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2answers
3k views

Does the “re” in emails have an ancient origin?

The Latin ablative re has become a word in English, meaning "regarding" or "with reference to" or something along those lines. This is also used in emails as an automatically generated prefix "Re:&...
6
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2answers
432 views

Is “cum haruspex in templo cenaret” correct Latin in this sentence?

Cum haruspex in templo cenaret, rex ipse appropinquabat. My problem is with the part in bold, firstly the cenaret, an imperfect subunctive does not agree with haruspex. (Or does it? I could be wrong.)...
4
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1answer
509 views

eadem mutata resurgo

What is the role of eadem mutata in this phrase? I'm guessing either neuter plural accusative of extent, or feminine nominative as apposition to an implied ego. The original context of this line is ...
8
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2answers
101 views

Which agents are human?

The agent of a passive construction is in ablative, and human agents also come with the preposition a/ab. For example, Marcus a Gnaeo occisus est but Marcus sica occisus est. But which agents should ...
23
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1answer
811 views

Why do ablatives of the 3rd declension sometimes end on -e, at other times on -i?

Normally, substantive nouns of the 3rd declension get an -e in the ablative (patre), and adjectives of the 3rd get an -i (audaci). This is already odd: normally, substantives and adjectives, both ...
19
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5answers
3k views

“Miserando atque eligendo”

There seem to be two schools of thought about the meaning of the motto on Pope Francis's coat of arms: miserando atque eligendo These words are taken from the 21st homily of the Venerable Bede, ...
9
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3answers
357 views

Can the ablative take a non-human agent or a human instrument?

In the study notes for chapter 6 of Lingua Latina per se Illustrata, I read about the ablative of agent and the ablative of instrument or means: In the passive, as we have seen, the personal agent ...
24
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2answers
404 views

Why does the ablative case also include the locative?

In Latin we have the ablative case. Its common uses can be described as instrumental and locative (ablativus loci). But in Slavonic languages we have a distinct locative case. Did the instrumental ...