Questions tagged [ablative]
For questions about the ablative case.
47
questions
13
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2answers
1k views
Should “cum” be included in this sentence or not?
I have a sentence that I need to translate:
Having left the forum with haste, ... etc
And I'm translating it as "e foro cum celeritate egressi, ..." (the rest of the sentence refers to ...
8
votes
1answer
124 views
Why is that which is spoken of expressed as in + ablative?
Vīta est spīrandī mūnere fruī, mors prīvārī. Hoc autem spīrandī mūnus apud plērōsque in bonīs dicitur.
Livet er å nyte Guds* åndingsgave; døden å berøves [den]. Denne pustingas gave anses dermed i de ...
1
vote
0answers
36 views
Is it possible for adverbs, such as utique, to be used as adjectives?
Reading Ambrose Dē bonō mortis 4.14, I came across this passage:
Sed ipsa hīc vīta bona sī est, quibus rēbus bona est? Virtūte utique, et bonīs mōribus.
But if this life here is a Good, by which ...
3
votes
1answer
107 views
What is the ablative construction at play here?
I am reading Historia plantarvm vniuersalis. There are many sentences I do not understand, but the particular one I would like to ask about is on page 10 (page 26 in the link):
Literal transcription:
...
2
votes
1answer
402 views
Conquering darkness by science
I just found that the motto of the Free University of Brussels (VUB) in Belgium is the following:
Scientia vincere tenebras
This should stand for "conquering darkness by science". This can ...
3
votes
1answer
114 views
Does accipio take the ablative?
In the sentence:
...quō ubi accēpit, in agrum quem arāverat magnā cum dīligentiā
sparsit.
quo could either be the adverb meaning where/whereupon, or it could be the relative pronoun, assuming that ...
4
votes
1answer
119 views
Can the ablative of agent and a relative pronoun be used at the same time?
Here is an example of an ablative of agent for living things:
"Puella a puero amata" = the girl loved by the boy
But is it correct if I add a relative pronoun to form:
"Puella quae a ...
7
votes
3answers
486 views
Use of accusative instead of ablative with 'pro'
I saw written in a coat of arms "PRO MARE NOSTRVM", but we all know that the preposition "pro" takes ablative, so the right form would be "PRO MARI NOSTRO" wouldn't it?
I ...
3
votes
1answer
141 views
Redundancy of “quo” with “de”
Passage: “Quo de genere mortis difficile dictu est.” Cic. Amic. 12
English translation (from Loeb): “It is hard to speak of the nature of his death.”
French translation : “Quant à la nature de sa ...
9
votes
1answer
151 views
On different expressions of partitivity in Latin
I was wondering whether there is any difference between the following partitive expressions in Latin: ūnus tribūnōrum and ūnus ex tribūnīs 'one of the tribunes' (cf. the so-called 'partitive genitive' ...
1
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0answers
75 views
Ablatives of Agent in Ablative Absolutes in Early Latin?
It is (often) said that participles in Ablative Absolutes in Early Latin have an adjectival nature (e.g., see Ruppel (2013: 124): "the Early Latin Ablative Absolute is not strongly verbal at all"). ...
8
votes
1answer
685 views
Ave Verum Corpus: why ablative?
Ave Verum Corpus ("Hail, true Body!") is a short Latin poem that was set to music by Mozart. For most of it, the language is quite plain and straightforward.
However, there's a bit in the middle ...
7
votes
1answer
223 views
What is the longest sequence of ablative/dative nouns ever to appear in Latin texts
I was intrigued by my question to ask this question. In that questions we have a sequence of 2 ablative nouns in a row:
"[Dama] differt a capreis [solis] cornibus ..."
I don't count solis because ...
1
vote
0answers
34 views
How did the preposition "de" evolve into meaning "from"?
I see that in reconstructed PIE "de" or "do" has a meaning of "towards" which is retained in Germanic "to" and Slavic "do". But in Latin "de" has a meaning of "from". Is that simply due it taking the ...
6
votes
1answer
249 views
Can a "dative of agent" appear in an Ablative Absolute construction?
I was wondering to what extent the syntactic distribution of so-called “dative of agent” and that of “ablative of agent” is different. For example, besides appearing in verbal contexts (e.g., Proelium ...
4
votes
0answers
73 views
Why is the form "Antares" used as an ablative in some Latin texts?
Jam inquiro nomen stellae Antares. Multa documenta quae "ab Antares" dicunt comperi. At non scio ablativi qui in "es" terminantur. Potestne nomen "Antares" indeclinabile esse? Quare?
Exempla:
"Lanx ...
4
votes
1answer
100 views
Declension uncertainty regarding Ablative / Nominative
I'm struggling, particularly, with determining the correct case for some of the words in the following expressions:
Natura est semper invicta
Here, is the word "invicta" in Ablative or Nominative ...
7
votes
1answer
2k views
In memoriam: why not "in memoria"?
Consider this usual example of Latin+English:
As Wiktionary states, in memoriam literally means "into memory" (memoriam is in accusative case). However, as Wiktionary (above) and Wikipedia state, the ...
4
votes
4answers
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Disambiguation of "nobis vobis" and "nobis nobis"
For many words, the dative and ablative take the same form. Two examples are nos and vos (nobis and vobis, respectively).
Imagine you want to say something like "from us to you [plural]" (where "...
1
vote
1answer
159 views
Ablative of Specification or Dative of Reference
Spinoza, Ethics, De Dei, Propositio 15, Scholium:
Ego saltem satis clare meo quidem judicio demonstravi ...
meo judicio is dative or ablative? I cant recognize that it is Ablative of ...
1
vote
1answer
92 views
The Nominative Case Uses
Spinoza writes in the last passage of Ethics:
Cum contra sapiens, quatenus ut talis consideratur, vix animo movetur, sed sui et Dei et rerum aeterna quadam necessitate conscius nunquam esse desinit,...
3
votes
3answers
369 views
"Fīliolō me auctum scito, salva Terentia"; what is "me" role in this phrase?
Is "Fīliolō me" the ablative of the phrase or "me" refers to "me auctum" in the accusative? If is in the ablative, how does it translates?
3
votes
1answer
158 views
Nemo te alius pari potestate saepius profuit (Apul. Florida 9)
Would you consider te to be dependent from pari ("with a position as powerful as yours") or saepius ("more often than you")?
par can be constructed with simple ablative, but rarely and more common is ...
7
votes
2answers
157 views
Why would the praeposition "per" ᴇᴠᴇʀ take an ablative instead of an accusative complement?
ᴘᴇʀ + ᴀʙʟ.: Barbarism, solœcism, or diachronic evolution?
Lewis and Short clearly state that per is a praeposition whose
normal complement is in the accusative. Without having dol...
3
votes
1answer
105 views
Why is the ablative used here instead of the genitive
Mark 1:6 starts with
Et erat Joannes vestitus pilis cameli...
Which is translated as "John was clothed with camel's hairs...."
Why is it pilis instead of pilorum? Shouldn't pilis use genitive ...
5
votes
1answer
109 views
Regarding the mode of "terram" in Deuteronomy 28:38
Deuteronomy 28:38 reads:
Sementem multam jacies in terram, et modicum congregabis: quia locustæ devorabunt omnia.
I think the first phrase before the comma has the following structure (but ...
6
votes
1answer
113 views
Consecutive ablatives
Consider the phrase
I met in Rome with a friend
As far as I know, "in Rome" and "with a friend" both represent the ablative case in Latin. Thus, the above could be translated as
convēnī Rōmā ...
4
votes
1answer
229 views
Ablative of Comparison w/ Relative Pronoun?
Fairly frequently in Latin one encounters a "backwards" comparison, in which the relative pronoun in the ablative precedes the term of comparison.
...philosophiam ad te adlegem, qua nec ...
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2answers
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How do we know that Italian words come from accusatives, not ablatives?
I have been told by several sources that Italian nouns and adjectives that originate from Latin come from accusative forms.
Also the final -m is lost and an u becomes o.
For example, caro > carnem > ...
6
votes
3answers
480 views
Can the absolute ablative be used with a prepositional phrase?
In all cases of ablativus absolutus that I know, there is a main word and an attribute and both are in ablative.
For example, me absente is "while I am away" and Caesare duce is "when Caesar is in ...
17
votes
2answers
1k views
When and why did the ablative form?
When did the ablative originate? Additionally, I’d like to know which case was used before the ablative for adverbials. I think it replaced the dative, as I also study Ancient Greek. In that language, ...
4
votes
1answer
132 views
Help with what I believe is an ablative
Conferre nostris tu potes te laudibus?
Moror inter aras, templa perlustro deum;
ubi immolatur, exta praegusto omnia;
(Phaedrus, "Formica et Musca")
I understand it to mean "Are YOU able to ...
8
votes
1answer
698 views
Dative–ablative ambiguity
When I first looked into Latin, I saw in a textbook that the dative and ablative singular are the same in the second declension:
nom. servus
acc. servum
gen. servi
dat. servō
abl. servō
voc. serve
...
5
votes
0answers
56 views
Can I use an instrument with the supine ablative of respect?
If a book is easy to write, I might say liber facilis est scriptu.
Here the supine ablative scriptu is an ablative of respect (ablativus respectus).
If I want to be more specific about my writing, I ...
5
votes
1answer
295 views
Comparing ablative and genitive of quality
The ablative and genitive of quality (ablativus qualitatis and genetivus qualitatis) are similar.
One can describe a high mountain as mons magna altitudine or mons magnae altitudinis.
Is there any ...
12
votes
1answer
1k views
Genitive vs Ablative of Price
In Latin, worth or value can be expressed by the genitive or by the ablative. Here are some examples:
Genitive
Non pono utrique par pretium: pluris aestimo beneficium quam iniuriam. (Sen Ep. Mor. 81....
8
votes
4answers
274 views
In contemporary spoken Latin, do people mark the 1st-declension ablative case?
In contemporary spoken Latin, such as (I think) occurs among canon lawyers in the Vatican and at Latin-only conventicula, do people clearly lengthen the -ā at the end of first-declension nouns in the ...
4
votes
2answers
115 views
Is the unmarked 1st-declension ablative in writing ever jarring or confusing?
Occasionally while reading, I've mistaken a first-declension ablative for a nominative, or vice versa,* and gotten confused for a moment until I sorted it out. Both appear the same in writing, of ...
9
votes
1answer
2k views
When to use the Greek accusative?
The Greek accusative or the accusative of respect (accusativus Graecus or accusativus respectus) is used like the ablative of respect (ablativus respectus).
This construction is a loan from Greek, ...
13
votes
2answers
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Does the "re" in emails have an ancient origin?
The Latin ablative re has become a word in English, meaning "regarding" or "with reference to" or something along those lines.
This is also used in emails as an automatically generated prefix "Re:&...
6
votes
2answers
451 views
Is "cum haruspex in templo cenaret" correct Latin in this sentence?
Cum haruspex in templo cenaret, rex ipse appropinquabat.
My problem is with the part in bold, firstly the cenaret, an imperfect subunctive does not agree with haruspex. (Or does it? I could be wrong.)...
4
votes
1answer
585 views
eadem mutata resurgo
What is the role of eadem mutata in this phrase? I'm guessing either neuter plural accusative of extent, or feminine nominative as apposition to an implied ego. The original context of this line is ...
8
votes
2answers
125 views
Which agents are human?
The agent of a passive construction is in ablative, and human agents also come with the preposition a/ab.
For example, Marcus a Gnaeo occisus est but Marcus sica occisus est.
But which agents should ...
24
votes
1answer
939 views
Why do ablatives of the 3rd declension sometimes end on -e, at other times on -i?
Normally, substantive nouns of the 3rd declension get an -e in the ablative (patre), and adjectives of the 3rd get an -i (audaci). This is already odd: normally, substantives and adjectives, both ...
20
votes
5answers
3k views
"Miserando atque eligendo"
There seem to be two schools of thought about the meaning of the motto on Pope Francis's coat of arms:
miserando atque eligendo
These words are taken from the 21st homily of the Venerable Bede, ...
9
votes
3answers
448 views
Can the ablative take a non-human agent or a human instrument?
In the study notes for chapter 6 of Lingua Latina per se Illustrata, I read about the ablative of agent and the ablative of instrument or means:
In the passive, as we have seen, the personal agent ...
24
votes
2answers
474 views
Why does the ablative case also include the locative?
In Latin we have the ablative case. Its common uses can be described as instrumental and locative (ablativus loci). But in Slavonic languages we have a distinct locative case.
Did the instrumental ...
