Can the supine ablative be used for motion?

Question

I came across an Asterix translated into Latin. In the first story page the village chief notices that Asterix and Obelix return from a hunt and says: Asterix atque Obelix venatu redeunt! My question concerns the word venatu.

I see two ways to parse venatu: it's either the supine ("from hunting") or the derived noun venatus ("from the hunt"). I have some problems seeing a difference between the two, even if one is formally a verb form and the other a noun.

Is it possible to use a supine ablative for motion like that? If someone returns from doing something, can I use a verb of motion with ab/ex/– and a supine ablative? If not, can I just derive the noun and use its singular ablative to achieve the same effect? (I would see this as practically using the supine, but it's a matter of opinion.)

Answer 1

I think that the straight answer to the title question is 'No'.

The supine is not exactly the most frequently found verbal form. The accusative form, as far as I know, is used only to indicate the objective of the main action after verbs of motion, and the ablative (the only other case found, though it is sometimes described as dative) only to qualify an adjective (e.g. mirabile dictu).

When cases of a noun such as venatus (always of 4th decl.) coincide with a supine verb-form, there may be confusion over which is intended — as you have found. The author of your example could perhaps have avoided this by choosing something else (venati? venatione perfecta? — but maybe an ablative absolute isn't appropriate here).

I suggest that it's often tempting to over-analyse the Latin, forgetting that a Roman, just like any other speaker of his own tongue — unless a fanatical grammarian — would seldom have hesitated in order to select a preferred grammatical form before speaking.

Answer 2

Although Tom Cotton's answer may be correct for pure Classical Latin, it neglects other eras of the language.

Excerpted from W. M. Lindsay's Syntax of Plautus 5.42 (emphasis mine):

Supine.

The Verbal Noun in -tus (4th Declension) is greatly in evidence in Plautus. We find the Accusative with eo, etc., e.g.

ire obsonatum to go a-marketing,

ire venatum to go a-hunting;

the Ablative with redeo, e.g. Cas. 719 (Men. 278, 288） “obsonatu redire” to return from marketing; the Dative with habeo, e.g. Cist. 365 “me … habes perditui et praedatui”, and with sum (see II. 19), also with some Adjectives, e.g. “fabula lepida auditui”; with others the Ablative (Locative?), e.g. celer cursu quick in running. Two of these usages took so firm root in the language that they became part of the Verbal system, the Accusative with eo, etc. (called the ‘First Supine’) and the Ablative (Locative?) with an Adjective (called the ‘Second Supine’).

This is a direct analogue to your example, both having an ablative supine paired with redire.