2

This text comes from Quintus Curtius Rufus Historiae Alexandri Magni, book 3, chapter 5 (emphasis mine):

Mediam Cydnus amnis, de quo paulo ante dictum est, interfluit. Et tunc aestas erat, cuius calor non aliam magis quam Ciliciae oram vapore solis accendit, et diei fervidissimum tempus esse coeperat. Pulvere simul ac sudore perfusum regem invitavit liquor fluminis, ut calidum adhuc corpus ablueret; itaque, veste deposita, in conspectu agminis — decorum quoque futurum ratus, si ostendisset suis levi ac parabili cultu corporis se esse contentum — descendit in flumen.

I've read a translation to Catalan of the particular sentence where pulvere and sudore appear, so its meaning is not a problem for me. The translation in Catalan of the expression pulvere simul ac sudore perfusum is "cobert de pols i ensems de suor". In Spanish would be "cubierto a la vez de polvo y de sudor" and in Italian "coperto contemporaneamente di polvere e di sudore". Such translations to some Romance languages lead me to think that the genitive should be used for the words in boldface in the text. A similar construction in which genitive is used, that I found in the book Método de Latín II: Incorpora Clave y Vocabulario Latino by Santiago Segura Munguía, is

Auri amore scelus commissit.

I cannot understand why the author uses the ablative case for such words.

Improve this question
6
  • 1
    It's the exact same situation as in your previous question.
    – Cairnarvon
    Commented Jan 14 at 15:08
  • @Cairnarvon: So it's also an ablative of material?
    – Charo
    Commented Jan 14 at 15:32
  • 2
    @Charo, did you understand pulvere and sudore goes with perfusum? How would you render this in English?
    – d_e
    Commented Jan 14 at 17:57
  • @d_e: Yes, I understand that pulvere and sudore goes with perfusum. The translation in Catalan is "cobert de pols i ensems de suor". In Spanish would be "cubierto a la vez de polvo y de sudor" and in Italian "coperto contemporaneamente di polvere e di sudore". I'm not sure in English, I believe it may be something like "covered at the same time with dust and sweat".
    – Charo
    Commented Jan 14 at 20:10
  • Should I improve something in this question?
    – Charo
    Commented Jan 14 at 20:37

2 Answers 2

Reset to default
5

Generally, If the nouns in question answer questions like in what manner, how, with what, those nouns should appear in the ablative. this is pretty much a book-case for the ablative here. so an ablative -- to my mind at least -- is the most natural choice.

The genitive usually implies a possession and answers questions such as: of what (whose) or which or sometimes from what.

But indeed Some languages might be using a "possessive" preposition for an ablative in other languages; or more severely accusative for dative or vice versa. (Note, that in English at least the preposition with that you chose conforms to an ablative). There is not much we can do about this: and we should look up the dictionary to see the usages.

Having said all that, to assume a genitive in our example from Curtius would not be too far-fetched. There are verbs/adjective (few that is) that also work with the genitive. One of them is impleo (and perhaps its family) or the adjective plenus: we can say plenus sacculus est aranearum but we could also say araneis. Is perfundo such a rare verb? A good dictionary should have the answer.

Improve this answer
2
  • I see, @d_e: unfortunately, any of my dictionaries don't specify which case is used with the verb perfundo.
    – Charo
    Commented Jan 15 at 10:22
  • 1
    @Charo Some dictionary authors do not specify this explicitly, but through the examples they list, such as Lewis & Short, who say: To scatter or sprinkle over, to besprinkle, bestrew (poet.): “canitiem immundo perfusam pulvere turpans,” Verg. A. 12, 611: “sanguine currum,” Verg. A. 11, 88: “penates sanguine,” Ov. M. 5, 155 etc.
    – Sebastian Koppehel
    Commented Jan 15 at 20:40
0

Sudore and pulvere are ablatives of (inanimate) agent related to perfusum, the perfect participle of "perfundere" (transitive), so it has passive meaning.

Improve this answer
10
  • In which sense are these ablatives of cause?
    – Charo
    Commented Jan 14 at 14:53
  • Sorry I meant ablative of (inanimate) agent (in my language, italian, it is called "efficient cause") and it is the agent of the passive meaning of profusus: "covered by dust and sweat". In other languages including mine, "covered with dust and sweat" or "covered of dust and sweat" would make more sense as translation (not in English probably.
    – Davide
    Commented Jan 14 at 15:52
  • 1
    Here quintushoratiusflaccus.wordpress.com/2011/06/23/…, you can find "perfusus liquidis odoribus" and the explanation that "liquidis odoribus" is an abaltive of agent ("causa efficiente" in the explanation).
    – Davide
    Commented Jan 14 at 15:55
  • 1
    How do you explain auro tecta perfudimus (Sen. Ep. 115 (lib. XIX))?
    – Sebastian Koppehel
    Commented Jan 14 at 16:38
  • 1
    @Davide I believe all the "ablative of such-and-such" titles (there are many) are a bit of a language game. I hadn't heard the name "ablative of material" until now. My point was only that there could be an agent in addition to the material in this case.
    – Sebastian Koppehel
    Commented Jan 15 at 20:38

Your Answer

By clicking “Post Your Answer”, you agree to our terms of service and acknowledge you have read our privacy policy.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged or ask your own question.