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I'm trying to figure out writing on one very old tombstone that I found near church. The text has some abbreviations so I'm having hard time figuring out which word is being hidden behind abbreviations. For now I know that lady in question is Elisabeth Judith and the guy in questions is John Logmagi from Dubrovnik.

Was this tombstone made by him for the Elisabeth or vice versa? Any help is appreciated. The tombstone itself is already missing parts of the writing due to age but I managed to dig up the text from one local book ( unfortunately it doesn't have translation)

inscriptionphoto

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  • How well do you understand Croatian? "Retoricar Andreas Paulus Logmagi, sin dubrovackog plemica Ivana Logmagi"
    – Alex B.
    Mar 18 at 18:07
  • The book "Spomenici kotara Krapina i Zlatar " (Szabo 1914) core.ac.uk/download/pdf/14423848.pdf
    – Alex B.
    Mar 18 at 18:10
  • Do I understand the quote above in Croatian (or Serbo-Croatian?) correctly, "Andreas Paulus Logmagi, son of a nobleman Ivan Logmagi from Dubrovnik, who graduated from the Jesuit University in Graz, Austria"? ("Retoricar Andreas Paulus Logmagi, sin dubrovackog plemica Ivana Logmagi, bio je upisan u matrikule isusovačkog sveučilišta u Grazu (Austrija)"
    – Alex B.
    Mar 18 at 18:29
  • and a very interesting document here rodoslovlje.hr/savjeti/najstarija-prezimena-radoboj
    – Alex B.
    Mar 18 at 18:38
  • @AlexB. I understand it pretty well because I'm from Croatia :) And that is exactly the book from which I took the screenshot with full text. Mar 18 at 19:03
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Here is the inscription spelled out with all abbreviations expanded, ligatures spelled separately, and V spelled as U when it stands for a vowel:

Nobilissimae ac Pientissimae
Dominae Elisabethae Szuditth
Consorti Dilectissimae Sibi
Suisque Posteris Generosus
Dominus Ioannes Logmagi de
Raguseo Poni Curavit
Anno 1620

The vocabulary is pretty standard apart from the names and piens instead of the more common pius. Perhaps this variant was used to get a less awkward superlative. Please bear in mind that Latin superlatives don't work quite like the English ones, and e.g. "most beloved" below should be understood as "dearly/very/highly beloved". You can use superlatives like this in English as well, but it is far less common than in Latin.

This could be translated as follows, line by line:

To the most noble and most dutiful
lady Elisabeth Judith,
to the most beloved partner to him
and to his descendants, the generous
mister John Logmagi
of Dubrovnik had [this stone] put in place
in the year 1620

Dubrovnik is known as Ragusium or Ragusa in Latin, and this inscription suggests the (unsurprising) variant Raguseum.

I am unsure whether sibi suisque posteris should modify dilectissimae or generosus. Either Elisabeth was loved to John and his family or John was generous to himself and his family. Either would make sense, but I chose the first option.

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  • thank you for the help with translation! Mar 18 at 19:13
  • I think the superlatives can work he same even in English. This is most interesting, most extraordinary... "my most dutiful respect performed to Her Majesty..."
    – Vladimir F
    Mar 19 at 15:40
  • @VladimirF Indeed, a superlative can be used in English in this same fashion, but it is rarer. And non-native speakers might be unfamiliar with it, so I always want to warn about it.
    – Joonas Ilmavirta
    Mar 19 at 15:48
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Elizabeth's name is in the dative case, so it was made for her. It translates to:

To the noblest and most pious lady Elisabeth Judith, his most delightful wife, for himself and his descendents the generous lord John Logmagi of Ragusa (mod. Dubrovnik) oversaw (this tombstone) to be erected in the year 1620.

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For the most noble and most pious Lady Elisabetha Szuditth, his most beloved wife, and for his descendants, the noble Lord Joannes Logmagi of Raguseum had this memorial placed in the year 1620.

The abbreviations mean suis-que ("and for his own"), Dominus ("the lord"), and anno ("in the year").

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  • Whoa, tied again!
    – cmw
    Mar 18 at 16:42
  • And you both beat me to it, but I chose to post instead of deleting.
    – Joonas Ilmavirta
    Mar 18 at 16:53
  • Thank you for the explanation! Mar 18 at 19:13

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