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What do you think, is "饜寭饜寑饜寯饜寗饜實饜寑饜寢鈥嬧副鈥嬸悓栶悓擆悓旔悓岎悓夝悓嶐悓夆嬧副鈥嬸悓嬸悓栶悓愷悓栶悓傪悓勨嬧副鈥嬸悓囸悓饜實饜寱饜寜鈥嬧副鈥嬸悓嗮悓饜寛饜寭饜寲饜寣鈥嬧副鈥嬸悓咅悓忦悓涒嬧副鈥嬸悓饜寘饜寜饜寢饜寑饜寭饜寜鈥嬧副鈥嬸悓嶐悓饜實饜寑饜寱饜實饜寑饜寣鈥嬧副鈥嬸悓夝悓嶐悓傗嬧副鈥嬸悓囸悓饜寣饜寛饜寜饜實" (transliterated: "Rasenal ursmini lupuce hanti za胃rum vor avilari nanatnam inc ham胃in.") good Etruscan for "The Etruscan language died two thousand (literally, twenty hundreds) years ago and nobody understands it."? Let me explain how I arrived at that translation.

饜寭饜寑饜寯饜寗饜實饜寑饜寢 - "Rasena" means "Etruscan", as in, "Etruscan person", so, if you add the genitive suffix "-l" to it, so that it reads "Rasenal", it could probably mean "Etruscan" as an adjective.

鈥嬸悓栶悓擆悓旔悓岎悓夝悓嶐悓夆 - "Ursmini" means "speech" or "sermon", perhaps related to Latin "sermo". The name "Ursminei" is translated to Latin as "Locutia". The word "ursmini" is also often used to mean "military command". I suppose it can be used to mean "language".

饜寢饜寲饜寪饜寲饜寕饜寗 - "Lupu" means "to die", and "-ce" is the past tense marker, so "lupuce" would mean "died".

饜寚饜寑饜實饜寱饜寜 - "hanti", apparently an Indo-European loanword (or a derivation from "hant", "to stop"), meant "before". I suppose it could also be used to mean "ago", but I am not sure.

饜寙饜寑饜寛饜寭饜寲饜寣飧别悓咅悓忦悓 - Now, Etruscan, as far as I know, had no word meaning "thousand". However, we can presume from the gloss that "vorsum" means "centum pedes" (a hundred feet) that "vor" meant "hundred", and we know that "za胃rum" meant "twenty", so I guess "za胃rum vor" would be a proper way of saying "two thousand".

饜寑饜寘饜寜饜寢饜寑饜寭饜寜 - "avilari", I suppose that would be the proper locative plural of "avil" (year).

饜實饜寑饜實饜寑饜寱饜實饜寑饜寣 - "nana-tnam", "nana" meaning "nobody" and "tnam" being the suffix corresponding to Latin "-que".

饜寜饜實饜寕 - "inc", a pronoun meaning "it".

饜寚饜寑饜寣饜寛饜寜饜實 - "ham胃in" means the same thing as Latin "capere", that is, it can mean both "to understand" and "to catch".

I have put "inc" before "ham胃in" because I know Etruscan was an SOV-language, like Latin.

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    Would Etruscan need to express the object in this context? Latin (if I am not mistaken) can easily leave out such an object when it follows from a previously stated subject.
    – Canned Man
    Commented Aug 24, 2021 at 14:41
  • @CannedMan I do not know, I have not studied Etruscan a lot. That is why I am asking here. Commented Aug 24, 2021 at 16:55
  • 3
    @FlatAssembler Nor has anyone else, it seems.
    – cmw
    Commented Aug 24, 2021 at 18:25

2 Answers 2

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Not an Etruscan expert myself but I have been studying Rex Wallace's Zikh Rasna.

  1. We know about 700 words only (the rest are proper nouns, Wallace 2008: 123);

  2. We're not even sure about how to say "Etruscan" in Etruscan (see Wallace 2008: 124), ra蟽na could be either "Etruscan" (adj.) or "public; people";

  3. years (NOM. PL.) is avil蠂va (the plural marker for inanimate nouns in Etrsucan is -蠂va/-cva/-va, Wallace 2008: 50), now you need to speculate how to add a locative marker to this stem, remembering that Etruscan is an agglutinating language, like Finnish or Turkish (probably, unattested avil蠂ve ??). Incidentally, e.g. when avil was used in the funerary inscriptions to denote one's age it was used in the singular (p. 105), e.g. 'seventeen years of age' is avils ciem za胃rms (year.GEN.SG three.NOM/ACC twenty.GEN.SG)

  4. not sure at all if there was 'it' (3rd.SG) in Etruscan, perhaps in (?);

  5. lupuce is correct, it means 'died'. etc.

A good case in point of how much we understand Etruscan taken from Weiss 2020 (p. 538, Chapter 43 Etrsucan).

For me蠂 胃uta (from the bilingual Pyrgi Tablets) Weiss mentions three interpretations:

  • Rix 1981 鈥榝rom his own money鈥, so me蠂 could be money;
  • Steinbauer me蠂 鈥榪ueen鈥
  • Wylin 2000 me蠂 胃uta 鈥榩lace holy鈥, so me蠂 could be 鈥榩lace鈥

Cf. me蠂 rasnal 鈥榬es publica鈥

Somebody whose primary area of expertise is Etruscan might help much more but I'm afraid I don't see much sense in making such guesses about a language so poorly attested and understood.

Some useful resources:

Il Dizionario della Lingua Etrusca by Massimo Pittau (2018)

Thesaurus Linguae Etruscae

Re: locative morphology in Etrsucan

The locative ending in Etrsucan was -i. However, it changed to -e in the following cases:

e.g. vowel stems, i.e. ending in -a and -e, except -i

mutna 鈥榮arcophagus鈥 鈥 mutne

rasna 鈥榩eople, public鈥 鈥 rasne

me胃lum 鈥榗ity鈥 鈥 me胃lume (another attested form, methlum-胃 鈥榠n the city鈥)

cil胃cva 鈥榗itadels鈥 (NOM.PL.) 鈥 cil胃cve-ti 鈥榠n the citadels鈥

You can read about it in Wallace 2008: 47-49

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    The discussion in the comments had taken an undesirable turn and the whole chain was deleted. I think this answer is correct and very close to the state of the art: Not enough is known about Etruscan to make a reliable and complete translation and the best resource for further details is the scientific literature on the matter. We discussed options between the moderators, and nuking the comments and leaving the answer struck us as the best solution.
    – Joonas Ilmavirta
    Commented Sep 8, 2021 at 15:07
  • @JoonasIlmavirta OK, I am sorry. Do you at least think the question I asked is good? Commented Sep 8, 2021 at 18:30
  • 2
    Yes, I think the question is good. It is on-topic, the goal is clear, and you provide a good attempt of your own to reach that goal. What was lacking was modesty and openness in response to volunteered help from others. This answer presents the best of tools and conclusions available. Both can feel insufficient, but that is often just how things are. // To avoid derailing this comment chain from commenting on Alex's answer, please use chat or meta if you want to discuss matters further. You are very welcome to do so!
    – Joonas Ilmavirta
    Commented Sep 8, 2021 at 20:04
  • 2
    Hi Alex, would it be possible to convince you to undelete this answer? It has interesting information that would be useful to people beyond the OP, whatever your opinion of him might be. I will understand if you refuse, but I thought to at least ask.
    – cmw
    Commented Nov 14, 2022 at 4:17
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    @cmw of course, just undeleted.
    – Alex B.
    Commented Nov 14, 2022 at 4:46
-2

What do you guys think, would "Nac avil pulum蠂va falatul snuia蠁, aca Rasnal amuce ziv, nanatnam ica cnara." be good Etruscan for "The Etruscan language has been dead for years as numerous as the stars of heaven and nobody knows it."?

I got this on an Internet forum here, and it seems very plausible to me: https://www.reddit.com/r/ancientrome/comments/mor62e/comment/i751f9w/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

Nac - for (time)

avil - year; it goes in singular, as we can see in the phrase 'nac ci avil', 'for three years', attested on Pyrgi Tablets

pulum蠂va - stars; irregular plural (not with the suffix -ar-), attested also on Pyrgi Tablets

falatul - of the sky (genitive singular of "falatu")

snuia蠁 - as numerous; the phrase 'pulum蠂va snuia蠁' meaning 'as numerous as stars' is attested on Pyrgi Tablets

aca - voice, (perhaps) language

Rasnal - Etruscan

amuce - has been; the perfect of ama (to be)

ziv - dead

nanatnam - see the OP for this

ica - this

cnara - to know

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  • Why the downvotes? Commented May 7, 2022 at 14:54

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