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As a follow-up of two previous questions on Latin grammar, I was wondering if examples like Memento moriendi (cf. Memento mori) and Me paenitet vivendi (cf. Me paenitet vivere) are also attested.

This question is motivated by:

(i) Joonas’s insightful comment, whose intuition there I tend to share: “memento mori and memento moriendi mean slightly different things, something like 'remember to die' and 'be mindful of the phenomenon of dying'".

and

(ii) my specific question at the end of a previous post: "(...) e.g., Me, mi Pomponi, valde paenitet vivere. (Cic. Att. 3,4). As for the latter example, I was wondering why a gerund in genitive case could not instead be used: e.g., Me paenitet vivendi".

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In Q. Memento Mori--Revisited offered gerundive (neuter impersonal) alternatives to "memento mori": "nunc est moriendum" = "now must die" & "mox erit moriendum" = "soon one must die". Of course, yourself will recognise these as having been inspired by your own Q:Nunc est bibendum: gerund or gerundive?. The gerundive genitive is a more complex species: "memento moriendi" cannot be translated as "remember one must of dying". The more long-winded gerundive-of-obligation style: "Remember it-ought-to-be-(a time)-of-dying/ of-death ("a time" being understood); alternatively: "Remember it-ought-to-be-(a concept)-of-dying/ of-death (again, "a concept" is undertood). This, second one is reminiscent of what Joonas has already said.

These may appeal to literal-translation purists (like me); but, they are clumsy, jerky & rambling. A more succinct offer may be: "miles Romanus, memento mox erit moriendum" = "Roman soldier (rank is now irrelevant) remember soon one must die." The Romans were well-aware of the rapid passage of time (tempus fugit). This continues to fit with the teachings of Seneca--everyone is dying--a Roman mindset.

The next one: "me paenitet vivendi" = "it makes me sorry of living", it's not a good translation; but, the grammatical rule for impersonal verb paenitet with construction (+ accusative of the person and genitive of the cause) allows for genitive of the cause of the sorrow, here, living.

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    I don't think the gerund proposed in the question has any sense of obligation to it. For a certainly attested type of obligation free gerund, one can say domum redii cenandi causa. Gerundives can be used similarly. – Joonas Ilmavirta Oct 14 at 15:43
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    As noted by Joonas, the examples in my question above do not involve obligation. However, as pointed out in your answer, things are different when the copula verb esse is present: e.g., Memento moriendum esse nobis omnibus – Mitomino Oct 14 at 17:15
  • @Mitomino: Thank you. What is more obligatory than death? Isn't that the whole point, here? Gerund genitive, "moriendi", did not appear to fit: "Remember of-the-dying"; which, can only work if more words are added (understood) than are there already. Is that what Joonas was attempting to achieve (Be-mindful-of-the-phenomenon-of-dying.)? How, then, is this any improvement on the panoply of translations offered in the preceding three Qs? Yes, a pithy, two-word, aphorism is now in its fourth Q. If yourself feels that the answer is unhelpful I'll delete it. – tony Oct 15 at 9:55
  • @Joonas llmavirta: Apologies, misunderstood yourself, yesterday. – tony Oct 15 at 11:48
  • @tony Thanks for your comment. You're absolutely right: (un)fortunately, nothing is more obligatory than death. As for my grammar question above, I was wondering if examples like Me paenitet vivendi are attested (along with attested ones like Me paenitet vivere). Joonas's intuition is that they could exist (with a slightly different meaning) but I don't know for sure. Hence my question. – Mitomino Oct 15 at 13:25

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